Trinity

Psalms_119:105 · Subject: Trinity Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:57 pm

Is G-d a Trinity or a singular compound entity?

cyberlizard · Subject: Re: Trinity Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:49 am

i will add my belief here if others do the same before me, (otherwise it may seem i am hogging the forum).

Steve

Psalms_119:105 · Subject: Re: Trinity Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:51 pm

I'd just like to see everyone opinion and beliefs on it. Not necessarily a formal debate, just were everyone is at at this PIT. Smile

Arlev · Member Posts: 55 Join date: 2007-12-21

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zaksmummy · Subject: Re: Trinity Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:23 pm

I like the scripture from Dueteronomy "The Lord is God, the Lord is One"

Or Gods description of himself - "I am", also Yeshua's description of himself

I dont personally have problem with the concept of the Trinity, having been brough up Christian, but I can see why Jewish people do, and any insight from a Jewish perspective will be greatly appreciated Psalms, as I cant quite get the discussion about whether someone is a trinitarian or a non-trinitatian Messianic.

Catrin xx

Psalms_119:105 · Subject: Re: Trinity Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:26 pm

Arlev wrote:

Unfortunately, the question is flawed (no offence meant). 'Trinity' never appears in the Bible and so you would have to define the word before you use it as it means different things to different people.

The NT *does* refer to the Godhead, though, and, perhaps the best statement is this:

'We believe in the unity of the one true and living God who is eternal, the self-existent ‘I AM’, who has declared Himself to be one Living Being revealed as Father, Son and Holy Spirit'

It manages to avoid that awful word 'persons' that makes it sound like God has three personalities and is three separate Beings that are independent from one another.

OK, fair enough. The title was 'Trinity' and the question was, Is G-d a Trinity or a compound entity. Trinity by base definition means 'a group of three'. Smile

So let's start with that,

Do you believe that G-d is composed of a group of things 'somethings' ( I'll let you define what those 'somethings' are. Wink

) Or is defined by the Shema? ( Deut 6:4)

I am aware that this word doesn't appear in the bible but is given as a singular word to describe who does appear in the bible and that is G-d.

I'm sorry arlev but I failed to locate what you quoted above, in fact it doesn't sound like any scripture I've ever read. What translation are you using and from what book is that from please?

I do agree that the many churches creeds that call him a god in three persons reallyl don't understand how much that limits him, and how much bigger he is than that. It says in Revelation that the menorah represents his seven fold spirit, so right there seems the 'Trinity' is short by more than double. Wink

Arlev · Member Posts: 55 Join date: 2007-12-21

This post has been removed

Psalms_119:105 · Subject: Re: Trinity Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:34 pm

zaksmummy wrote:

I like the scripture from Dueteronomy "The Lord is God, the Lord is One"

Or Gods description of himself - "I am", also Yeshua's description of himself

I dont personally have problem with the concept of the Trinity, having been brough up Christian, but I can see why Jewish people do, and any insight from a Jewish perspective will be greatly appreciated Psalms, as I cant quite get the discussion about whether someone is a trinitarian or a non-trinitatian Messianic.

Catrin xx

I don't believe in the 'G-d in three persons' as he is not. Yeshua himself defined this quite sisinctly , even to a woman and she had no problem understanding it ( the Samaritan woman by the well). G-d is a spirit. He lowered himself to come down here and right what happened in the garden because we could never do it ourselves. He tabernacled with us in the fleshly succah of his body, born by a woman to be seen and heard and to suffer as we do and to pay the penalty for what we can't do ourselves. He, doing this is how he became our salvation ( acted out in Yeshua but was demonstrated through Moses). And also to be the righteous King, but also our judge.

I never understood how, if G-d is spirit, that there can be something separate from his that is called the Holy Spirit. For isn't G-d holy? Huh?

And spirit?

I understand that when we believe, Yeshua sends his spirit to indwell us and lead us on the right path. This is not all G-d is, but only a part of him. I believe we once had that but it was forfeited, and we just get back that part of G-d when we are mikvah'd to receive it.

Psalms_119:105 · Subject: Re: Trinity Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:44 pm

Arlev wrote:

Zaksmummy, my point is, partly, that we have insisted on a word that isn't Biblical. I don't understand why we don't ditch the terminology and use 'Godhead'.

If we used 'Godhead' (which is in the NT), we would have a chance of pulling away from the distinction...

...however, the real problem, I believe, lies in the concepts that stand behind the word 'Trinity'. We seem to have gone way too far trying to define what it is, rather than to take the NT and accept its statements as 'stand alones'.

Gosh, I'm tired. Does that make sense?

Trinity isn't in the bible, but also neither is Godhead, really,. Very Happy

This is only a tranlation of the Greek word that is defined by Christians as meaning trinity.

Why not use what G-d himself defines himself as?

Hear O Israel, the L-RD your G-d, the L-RD is ONE!