our father abraham

your word is a lamp unto my feet
 
HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log inLog in  peculiar people forumpeculiar people forum  

Share | 
 

 God's chosen people and Jesus....

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:28 pm

Not sure where to post this, so I'll give it a go here, someone will find it ...

This may be a bit controversial again, and I'm not trying to be awful, but I've never be able to talk about Christian/Jewish things before and lots of things are coming into my mind now....

Question.......God told the Jews they were His chosen people...right, right !!

Jesus came along and says.....no one gets to the Father except through ME.

Several years ago, I decided I wanted to go to a Jewish worship service to see what Jesus experienced. I rang the local Jewish people to see about how I'd be able to go to a service. I was told.....don't come to a Jewish service to find Jesus, you won't find him here, because Jews reject Jesus.

So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ?? If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ?? I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ??? A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?

If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....???

Any comments....

Vella queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cyberlizard
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
avatar

Posts : 207
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 50
Location : chesterfield, UK

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:52 am

i will hedge my bets that the person that advised you not to go to a jewish service because 'jews reject jesus' was a chrsitian!

it is a misnomer to say 'jews reject jesus'. Sure some Jews do, but so do some non-jews. Remember that for the best part of the new testament, the majority of believers were Jewish. non-jewish believers were rather few and far between.

I mean if you think about it logically, the argument 'jews reject jesus' actually finds it basis in the crucifiction accounts (if you can call it a basis). If Paul had followed the advice of whoever told you, you can be pretty sure we wouldn't have much of the new testament, and Peter would have ditched the synagogue hence no book of Acts, no pentecost, etc.

If you want to see how Jews worship contact your local synagogue and arrange a visit. If you want to see how Jews who have found faith through Messiah Yeshua, find a messianic synagogue.


Now for the rest of the question... i will let someone else answer.


Steve

p.s. the thing that pleases God is not being a jew or a christian or anything else... it is Faith... Faith pleases God.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.cyberlizard.co.uk
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:46 am

cyberlizard wrote:
i will hedge my bets that the person that advised you not to go to a jewish service because 'jews reject jesus' was a chrsitian!

it is a misnomer to say 'jews reject jesus'. Sure some Jews do, but so do some non-jews. Remember that for the best part of the new testament, the majority of believers were Jewish. non-jewish believers were rather few and far between.

I mean if you think about it logically, the argument 'jews reject jesus' actually finds it basis in the crucifiction accounts (if you can call it a basis). If Paul had followed the advice of whoever told you, you can be pretty sure we wouldn't have much of the new testament, and Peter would have ditched the synagogue hence no book of Acts, no pentecost, etc.

If you want to see how Jews worship contact your local synagogue and arrange a visit. If you want to see how Jews who have found faith through Messiah Yeshua, find a messianic synagogue.


Now for the rest of the question... i will let someone else answer.


Steve

p.s. the thing that pleases God is not being a jew or a christian or anything else... it is Faith... Faith pleases God.


The person who told me that I wouldn't find Jesus in a place of Jewish worship was a Jewish person, it was the person I phoned to see about going to a Jewish service....it may even have been a Rabbi, I'm not sure, it was just a man at the Jewish place I phoned.

I hope it's ok for me to ask these questions, I guess I'm just asking things I'd never be game to ask anyone in person, or never have had the time or opportunity to ask anyone who would know the answers before. I'm genuinely curious about these things.

Vella. queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cyberlizard
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
avatar

Posts : 207
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 50
Location : chesterfield, UK

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:04 am

i think the questions are great....

steve - the non jewish believer!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.cyberlizard.co.uk
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:25 am

Well, I'm pleased that you understand that I am genuine, I'm not trying to be contraversial....I just don't know these things, or if I've heard of them I've just never bothered to ask about them before.

Vella.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Juski
Jr.Member
Jr.Member


Posts : 33
Join date : 2007-09-23

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:39 pm

Hi Vella,

Its great you want to learn more about Judaism and to see what worship services Jesus might have been to.

But - you are a Christian, you are not called to become a Jew, you are called to relationship with God thorugh Jesus. Embracing your Hebrew roots is fantastic, and following things such as sabbath, the feasts, food laws are important for Christians becasue God tells us to do them. He doesnt want us to embrace Judaism, He wants us to embrace Him!

God doesnt prefer Christians or Jews. Its just different. Personally I think Hes very sad that his chosen people (jews) dont recognise the Messiah. But equally He's pretty sad with much Christian activity.

The important thing is that you are in relationship with God, and that that relationship is moving forward and growing. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zaksmummy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member


Posts : 147
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Chesterfield, UK

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:15 pm

I'm sure Gods got a trick up his sleeve (metophorically speaking) so that many of his chosen people will come to see that Jesus is the Messiah before the end because they are after all his very special chosen ones, and I cant think that he would want any of them to perish. We wait to see with baited breath.......


Catrin xx
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:50 pm

zaksmummy wrote:
I'm sure Gods got a trick up his sleeve (metophorically speaking) so that many of his chosen people will come to see that Jesus is the Messiah before the end because they are after all his very special chosen ones, and I cant think that he would want any of them to perish. We wait to see with baited breath.......


Catrin xx

You used the words....."I can't think that he would want any of them to perish".....are you saying that you think if Jews don't accept Jesus, they WILL perish ???? even though they are the "chosen" ones ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zaksmummy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member


Posts : 147
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Chesterfield, UK

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:20 am

To be honest Vella, I dont know.

I just think that Jesus will reveal himself so that none are lost, does that make sense?

Catrin xx
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:28 pm

zaksmummy wrote:
To be honest Vella, I dont know.

I just think that Jesus will reveal himself so that none are lost, does that make sense?

Catrin xx

Well, it makes as much sense as half the other things I hear about Christianity or other things in life. As far as Heaven goes, everyone reckons that we'll all get a shock to see who's up there.....may even get a shock they we're there...Smile God knows the answer to all these things, and I guess that's all that really matters.

Smiles, Vella.queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:10 pm

Vella wrote:
Not sure where to post this, so I'll give it a go here, someone will find it ...

This may be a bit controversial again, and I'm not trying to be awful, but I've never be able to talk about Christian/Jewish things before and lots of things are coming into my mind now....

Question.......God told the Jews they were His chosen people...right, right !!

Jesus came along and says.....no one gets to the Father except through ME.

Several years ago, I decided I wanted to go to a Jewish worship service to see what Jesus experienced. I rang the local Jewish people to see about how I'd be able to go to a service. I was told.....don't come to a Jewish service to find Jesus, you won't find him here, because Jews reject Jesus.

So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ?? If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ?? I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ??? A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?

If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....???

Any comments....

Vella queen
I've been staying out of this a bit since it seems I am the only regularly posting Jew here and a believing one at that! Smile

I would just like to clear a few things up .

First let me say that I think it is great that you have these questions pressed upon your heart and that G-d has provided you a place to come ( thanks to Steve) to voice them without too much reservation, where we can talk and learn and love together. Smile

cheers

The Chosen people. We are called that for a reason. because G-d choose us for a specific relationship with him, to bring proper worship of him into the world and to also bring forth the promised Messiah foretold in Genesis 3:15. We were entrusted with his Holy Oracles, his divine words and revelations, and were to be a light to the nations.
To put it succinctly, The world can see that G-d exists because Jews still exist, despite all determination by man after man, country after country to destroy us. No

We were chosen to be an example to the world, and special in that way but we were chosen to suffer too, just like Paul says in Romans. Some were cut off so the gentiles may come in and find life because without the Jews there is no salvation and therefore, no life!

It's not a matter of preference, of being the favored child like many Christians get jealous and speak out about it. Yes, he loves us but also told us that he had others, and he would love them too. But we are different in that we have two different callings, but the love is the same, as long as we love in return and are obedient to him. There are certain things that distinguish Israel, and certain things she is called to do to make that presence known and shouldn't be mixed up with gentiles or Christians doing. And then there are other things that children of G-d should do wither native born or strangers who have decided to follow the G-d of Israel.

Going to a modern day Traditional synagogue service would only let you see through a glass darkly a bit of what Yeshua experienced. Todays Judaism is different since the destruction of the temple and the final revolt in 135AD. It is much different, and based more on Talmud ( a commentary by many Rabbis on the Torah) than Torah ( the first five books of the bible). You would hear the Torah read in Hebrew, which Yeshua did, and you would hear ancient and not so ancient liturgy, and prayers. The feasts are still celebrated in synagogue but not near what Yeshua experienced, because, again, no temple.

A good book for you to read would be this one, you don't even have to purchase it, just read online or download and read off-line

The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - by Alfred Edersheim

http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/

Now as to what you were told when calling. First whomever you spoke to was probably afraid by what you stated.silent Wink If you want to go to a synagogue, they do welcome gentiles and even Christians, but it is best to keep that to yourself. You should have just told him you were curious about the Jewish faith and would like to come to a service. If it was a High Holy day there may be a ticket involved. But I am sure by his response he felt as if you might come proselytizing and they don't ( understandably) allow that.

I'm going to break down the rest of your questions here.

Quote :
So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ??
He loves both, there is no preference except maybe to those who obey willingly, and not because they are Jewish, or because they are afraid. But in the world wide picture, yes, he does say that Israel ( obedient and not so) is the apple of his eye and he has not rejected her , nor foresaken her nor turned away from her forever, remember there is a time of the gentiles and it is almost up!


Quote :
If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ??
Not all do reject him, I am living proof, and I know many, many Jews who believe, this is a relatively new thing, since the re founding of Israel in 1948, but now there are 100,000's round the world, born Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah! Baruch haShem! ( Praise his name! ) Some are in Christian churches because they were raised Reform or non observant at all, and many who were raised Conservative or even Observant who are Messianic Jews and practice Messianic Judaism , keeping Shabbat and Kashrut and other things given to Israel to keep.

But there are many who love the L-RD G-d of Israel but he has not revealed just yet to many of them that his promised Salvation is the same Jesus that they were killed in the name of by many so called Christians. You have to understand the history here between Jews and Christians to fully grasp this, there are many today that still call a Jew a Christ Killer. Sad


Quote :
I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ???
Remember what Yeshua told the Samaritan woman, Salvation comes from the Jews. Salvation of gentiles only comes through the Jews, and through the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua. For the Jews, those who are religious, and love G-d, they already know he is our Salvation. He told us that back when He took us out of Egypt, but some Jews believed Yeshua was the promised Messiah, and some didn't so that gentiles would have a part in the world to come.

Quote :
A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?
Of course not, Yeshua said he was going to prepare a place ( and he was speaking to Jews) for those who love him. There will be a time when all Jews have the opportunity to have the blindness removed that G-d put on them for the sake of the gentiles, to really know who Yeshua was and is, and they will believe, they will repent and weep and mourn for him because they will finally see whom they rejected was the one whom they so longed for!

Quote :
If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....??? cheers
Why would you want to become a Jew? You are loved being a gentile. Paul even said you are to remain in the place you were called. Which means, I remain a Jew, you remain a gentile and HaShem is glorified in both!

Hope that helps a bit. Smile Good questions and have you wondered why you care? Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:17 pm

Juski wrote:
Hi Vella,

Its great you want to learn more about Judaism and to see what worship services Jesus might have been to.

But - you are a Christian, you are not called to become a Jew, you are called to relationship with God thorugh Jesus. Embracing your Hebrew roots is fantastic, and following things such as sabbath, the feasts, food laws are important for Christians becasue God tells us to do them. He doesnt want us to embrace Judaism, He wants us to embrace Him!

God doesnt prefer Christians or Jews. Its just different. Personally I think Hes very sad that his chosen people (jews) dont recognise the Messiah. But equally He's pretty sad with much Christian activity.

The important thing is that you are in relationship with God, and that that relationship is moving forward and growing. Smile
Yes, the relationship is important, as if faith.

I don't think he's sad about it, because this is in his plan. He is the one who sent the blindness to keep some Jews from knowing that Yeshua is the promised Messiah, to say he is sad would mean he had nothing to do with it and not in control, but he is, it's all in his plan. Smile

One word of advise, unless the L-rD has spoken to you directly regarding Vella, I would say it is a bit arrogant to say what her calling is. While we are taught that we are to remain in the place we were called, that is Paul speaking about some gentiles who thought they were better off being a Jew, and also there were some Jews who actually got uncircumcised! But some who are gentiles or who think they are ( there are many hidden Jews out there) may be receiving the calling of conversion, and all in HaShems plan. Of course not denying Yeshua, but there are some who will convert without asking that.

And Jew and Christian are not opposites. Smile

And the Sabbath was given to Israel to keep so unless you have bound yourself to Israel you too shouldn't be keeping it.

See , you have to be careful where you draw the line.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:19 pm

Vella wrote:
zaksmummy wrote:
I'm sure Gods got a trick up his sleeve (metophorically speaking) so that many of his chosen people will come to see that Jesus is the Messiah before the end because they are after all his very special chosen ones, and I cant think that he would want any of them to perish. We wait to see with baited breath.......


Catrin xx

You used the words....."I can't think that he would want any of them to perish".....are you saying that you think if Jews don't accept Jesus, they WILL perish ???? even though they are the "chosen" ones ?

Yes, I believe Yeshua's words, just like any Jew who is an Atheist or Buddist , or B'hai, anything other than worshipping the true G-d and will refuse to in the last moment possible, yes, they will.

But his promise is that all Israel will be saved, but not everyone who says they are a Jew is a Jew.

More puzzles, huh? Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:50 pm

Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Vella wrote:
Not sure where to post this, so I'll give it a go here, someone will find it ...

This may be a bit controversial again, and I'm not trying to be awful, but I've never be able to talk about Christian/Jewish things before and lots of things are coming into my mind now....

Question.......God told the Jews they were His chosen people...right, right !!

Jesus came along and says.....no one gets to the Father except through ME.

Several years ago, I decided I wanted to go to a Jewish worship service to see what Jesus experienced. I rang the local Jewish people to see about how I'd be able to go to a service. I was told.....don't come to a Jewish service to find Jesus, you won't find him here, because Jews reject Jesus.

So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ?? If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ?? I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ??? A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?

If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....???

Any comments....

Vella queen
I've been staying out of this a bit since it seems I am the only regularly posting Jew here and a believing one at that! Smile

I would just like to clear a few things up .

First let me say that I think it is great that you have these questions pressed upon your heart and that G-d has provided you a place to come ( thanks to Steve) to voice them without too much reservation, where we can talk and learn and love together. Smile

cheers

The Chosen people. We are called that for a reason. because G-d choose us for a specific relationship with him, to bring proper worship of him into the world and to also bring forth the promised Messiah foretold in Genesis 3:15. We were entrusted with his Holy Oracles, his divine words and revelations, and were to be a light to the nations.
To put it succinctly, The world can see that G-d exists because Jews still exist, despite all determination by man after man, country after country to destroy us. No

We were chosen to be an example to the world, and special in that way but we were chosen to suffer too, just like Paul says in Romans. Some were cut off so the gentiles may come in and find life because without the Jews there is no salvation and therefore, no life!

It's not a matter of preference, of being the favored child like many Christians get jealous and speak out about it. Yes, he loves us but also told us that he had others, and he would love them too. But we are different in that we have two different callings, but the love is the same, as long as we love in return and are obedient to him. There are certain things that distinguish Israel, and certain things she is called to do to make that presence known and shouldn't be mixed up with gentiles or Christians doing. And then there are other things that children of G-d should do wither native born or strangers who have decided to follow the G-d of Israel.

Going to a modern day Traditional synagogue service would only let you see through a glass darkly a bit of what Yeshua experienced. Todays Judaism is different since the destruction of the temple and the final revolt in 135AD. It is much different, and based more on Talmud ( a commentary by many Rabbis on the Torah) than Torah ( the first five books of the bible). You would hear the Torah read in Hebrew, which Yeshua did, and you would hear ancient and not so ancient liturgy, and prayers. The feasts are still celebrated in synagogue but not near what Yeshua experienced, because, again, no temple.

A good book for you to read would be this one, you don't even have to purchase it, just read online or download and read off-line

The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - by Alfred Edersheim

http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/

Now as to what you were told when calling. First whomever you spoke to was probably afraid by what you stated.silent Wink If you want to go to a synagogue, they do welcome gentiles and even Christians, but it is best to keep that to yourself. You should have just told him you were curious about the Jewish faith and would like to come to a service. If it was a High Holy day there may be a ticket involved. But I am sure by his response he felt as if you might come proselytizing and they don't ( understandably) allow that.

I'm going to break down the rest of your questions here.

Quote :
So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ??
He loves both, there is no preference except maybe to those who obey willingly, and not because they are Jewish, or because they are afraid. But in the world wide picture, yes, he does say that Israel ( obedient and not so) is the apple of his eye and he has not rejected her , nor foresaken her nor turned away from her forever, remember there is a time of the gentiles and it is almost up!


Quote :
If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ??
Not all do reject him, I am living proof, and I know many, many Jews who believe, this is a relatively new thing, since the re founding of Israel in 1948, but now there are 100,000's round the world, born Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah! Baruch haShem! ( Praise his name! ) Some are in Christian churches because they were raised Reform or non observant at all, and many who were raised Conservative or even Observant who are Messianic Jews and practice Messianic Judaism , keeping Shabbat and Kashrut and other things given to Israel to keep.

But there are many who love the L-RD G-d of Israel but he has not revealed just yet to many of them that his promised Salvation is the same Jesus that they were killed in the name of by many so called Christians. You have to understand the history here between Jews and Christians to fully grasp this, there are many today that still call a Jew a Christ Killer. Sad


Quote :
I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ???
Remember what Yeshua told the Samaritan woman, Salvation comes from the Jews. Salvation of gentiles only comes through the Jews, and through the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua. For the Jews, those who are religious, and love G-d, they already know he is our Salvation. He told us that back when He took us out of Egypt, but some Jews believed Yeshua was the promised Messiah, and some didn't so that gentiles would have a part in the world to come.

Quote :
A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?
Of course not, Yeshua said he was going to prepare a place ( and he was speaking to Jews) for those who love him. There will be a time when all Jews have the opportunity to have the blindness removed that G-d put on them for the sake of the gentiles, to really know who Yeshua was and is, and they will believe, they will repent and weep and mourn for him because they will finally see whom they rejected was the one whom they so longed for!

Quote :
If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....??? cheers
Why would you want to become a Jew? You are loved being a gentile. Paul even said you are to remain in the place you were called. Which means, I remain a Jew, you remain a gentile and HaShem is glorified in both!

Hope that helps a bit. Smile Good questions and have you wondered why you care? Wink



Thank you for all the time and effort you're putting into answering my questions. Funny thing, when I joined this forum it was ok at first, then I saw all this "Jewish" stuff and thought....this isn't of any interest to me, I'm a gentile and Christian, my husbands grandparents were Jewish, but that's the only real contact I have with Jews. So I didn't come in for awhile, then Steve sent me a pm saying that....shucks....Catrin missed me, and would I come back....and suddenly, I have all these questions about Jewish things popping into my head.....go figure!!! Question Do I wonder why I care about Jewish things....well, I am always trying to get closer to G-d....gee, I'm even spelling the word the way you do now.... Very Happy I still think pigs are ok and I think some of the statements made about them being ugly and making horrible noises etc are "over the top"....HOWEVER....I have noticed that when I've gone to do the shopping these last couple of weeks, when I'm in the meat department, I look at pork and think...mmmmm, I'm not surposed to eat this anymore....just seems a bit odd to think that way. Not saying I won't eat it again, but I give it a second look now. Smile It's no big deal for me not to eat pork, I rarely have it anyway, as I've said before, I'm mostly a lamb person.......Don't know if I've run out of questions, but it sure has been interesting, and if I think of anything else, I'll be sure to ask don't worry about that. Very Happy Thanks again for your interest and love,

Vella. queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zaksmummy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member


Posts : 147
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Chesterfield, UK

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:10 pm

Bless you Vella. There is no supposed about it. You are free to eat whatever you chose, you are after all gentile.

It has taken a while for me to get out of the habit of thinking what I am supposed or not supposed to do, we are free to chose and be happy with our choice, dont feel burdened to change for the sake of it, ask God to help you to feel free to change as he leads you. Remeber Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light".

And for the record I quite like pigs!!!!!

Catrin xx
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:34 pm

Vella wrote:
Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Vella wrote:
Not sure where to post this, so I'll give it a go here, someone will find it ...

This may be a bit controversial again, and I'm not trying to be awful, but I've never be able to talk about Christian/Jewish things before and lots of things are coming into my mind now....

Question.......God told the Jews they were His chosen people...right, right !!

Jesus came along and says.....no one gets to the Father except through ME.

Several years ago, I decided I wanted to go to a Jewish worship service to see what Jesus experienced. I rang the local Jewish people to see about how I'd be able to go to a service. I was told.....don't come to a Jewish service to find Jesus, you won't find him here, because Jews reject Jesus.

So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ?? If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ?? I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ??? A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?

If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....???

Any comments....

Vella queen
I've been staying out of this a bit since it seems I am the only regularly posting Jew here and a believing one at that! Smile

I would just like to clear a few things up .

First let me say that I think it is great that you have these questions pressed upon your heart and that G-d has provided you a place to come ( thanks to Steve) to voice them without too much reservation, where we can talk and learn and love together. Smile

cheers

The Chosen people. We are called that for a reason. because G-d choose us for a specific relationship with him, to bring proper worship of him into the world and to also bring forth the promised Messiah foretold in Genesis 3:15. We were entrusted with his Holy Oracles, his divine words and revelations, and were to be a light to the nations.
To put it succinctly, The world can see that G-d exists because Jews still exist, despite all determination by man after man, country after country to destroy us. No

We were chosen to be an example to the world, and special in that way but we were chosen to suffer too, just like Paul says in Romans. Some were cut off so the gentiles may come in and find life because without the Jews there is no salvation and therefore, no life!

It's not a matter of preference, of being the favored child like many Christians get jealous and speak out about it. Yes, he loves us but also told us that he had others, and he would love them too. But we are different in that we have two different callings, but the love is the same, as long as we love in return and are obedient to him. There are certain things that distinguish Israel, and certain things she is called to do to make that presence known and shouldn't be mixed up with gentiles or Christians doing. And then there are other things that children of G-d should do wither native born or strangers who have decided to follow the G-d of Israel.

Going to a modern day Traditional synagogue service would only let you see through a glass darkly a bit of what Yeshua experienced. Todays Judaism is different since the destruction of the temple and the final revolt in 135AD. It is much different, and based more on Talmud ( a commentary by many Rabbis on the Torah) than Torah ( the first five books of the bible). You would hear the Torah read in Hebrew, which Yeshua did, and you would hear ancient and not so ancient liturgy, and prayers. The feasts are still celebrated in synagogue but not near what Yeshua experienced, because, again, no temple.

A good book for you to read would be this one, you don't even have to purchase it, just read online or download and read off-line

The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - by Alfred Edersheim

http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/

Now as to what you were told when calling. First whomever you spoke to was probably afraid by what you stated.silent Wink If you want to go to a synagogue, they do welcome gentiles and even Christians, but it is best to keep that to yourself. You should have just told him you were curious about the Jewish faith and would like to come to a service. If it was a High Holy day there may be a ticket involved. But I am sure by his response he felt as if you might come proselytizing and they don't ( understandably) allow that.

I'm going to break down the rest of your questions here.

Quote :
So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ??
He loves both, there is no preference except maybe to those who obey willingly, and not because they are Jewish, or because they are afraid. But in the world wide picture, yes, he does say that Israel ( obedient and not so) is the apple of his eye and he has not rejected her , nor foresaken her nor turned away from her forever, remember there is a time of the gentiles and it is almost up!


Quote :
If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ??
Not all do reject him, I am living proof, and I know many, many Jews who believe, this is a relatively new thing, since the re founding of Israel in 1948, but now there are 100,000's round the world, born Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah! Baruch haShem! ( Praise his name! ) Some are in Christian churches because they were raised Reform or non observant at all, and many who were raised Conservative or even Observant who are Messianic Jews and practice Messianic Judaism , keeping Shabbat and Kashrut and other things given to Israel to keep.

But there are many who love the L-RD G-d of Israel but he has not revealed just yet to many of them that his promised Salvation is the same Jesus that they were killed in the name of by many so called Christians. You have to understand the history here between Jews and Christians to fully grasp this, there are many today that still call a Jew a Christ Killer. Sad


Quote :
I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ???
Remember what Yeshua told the Samaritan woman, Salvation comes from the Jews. Salvation of gentiles only comes through the Jews, and through the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua. For the Jews, those who are religious, and love G-d, they already know he is our Salvation. He told us that back when He took us out of Egypt, but some Jews believed Yeshua was the promised Messiah, and some didn't so that gentiles would have a part in the world to come.

Quote :
A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?
Of course not, Yeshua said he was going to prepare a place ( and he was speaking to Jews) for those who love him. There will be a time when all Jews have the opportunity to have the blindness removed that G-d put on them for the sake of the gentiles, to really know who Yeshua was and is, and they will believe, they will repent and weep and mourn for him because they will finally see whom they rejected was the one whom they so longed for!

Quote :
If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....??? cheers
Why would you want to become a Jew? You are loved being a gentile. Paul even said you are to remain in the place you were called. Which means, I remain a Jew, you remain a gentile and HaShem is glorified in both!

Hope that helps a bit. Smile Good questions and have you wondered why you care? Wink



Thank you for all the time and effort you're putting into answering my questions. Funny thing, when I joined this forum it was ok at first, then I saw all this "Jewish" stuff and thought....this isn't of any interest to me, I'm a gentile and Christian, my husbands grandparents were Jewish, but that's the only real contact I have with Jews. So I didn't come in for awhile, then Steve sent me a pm saying that....shucks....Catrin missed me, and would I come back....and suddenly, I have all these questions about Jewish things popping into my head.....go figure!!! Question Do I wonder why I care about Jewish things....well, I am always trying to get closer to G-d....gee, I'm even spelling the word the way you do now.... Very Happy I still think pigs are ok and I think some of the statements made about them being ugly and making horrible noises etc are "over the top"....HOWEVER....I have noticed that when I've gone to do the shopping these last couple of weeks, when I'm in the meat department, I look at pork and think...mmmmm, I'm not surposed to eat this anymore....just seems a bit odd to think that way. Not saying I won't eat it again, but I give it a second look now. Smile It's no big deal for me not to eat pork, I rarely have it anyway, as I've said before, I'm mostly a lamb person.......Don't know if I've run out of questions, but it sure has been interesting, and if I think of anything else, I'll be sure to ask don't worry about that. Very Happy Thanks again for your interest and love,

Vella. queen
My pleasure! I am sure that the L-RD is moving in ways we can not see. You say your husband's grandparents were Jews, that means he is as well. This may be why you are being pressed with all these questions.

The L-RD is pouring out his spirit on the whole house of Israel and your husband is part of that, and you being joined to him are as well.

Smile Look forward to talking to you again soon! Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:50 pm

Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Vella wrote:
Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Vella wrote:
Not sure where to post this, so I'll give it a go here, someone will find it ...

This may be a bit controversial again, and I'm not trying to be awful, but I've never be able to talk about Christian/Jewish things before and lots of things are coming into my mind now....

Question.......God told the Jews they were His chosen people...right, right !!

Jesus came along and says.....no one gets to the Father except through ME.

Several years ago, I decided I wanted to go to a Jewish worship service to see what Jesus experienced. I rang the local Jewish people to see about how I'd be able to go to a service. I was told.....don't come to a Jewish service to find Jesus, you won't find him here, because Jews reject Jesus.

So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ?? If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ?? I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ??? A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?

If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....???

Any comments....

Vella queen
I've been staying out of this a bit since it seems I am the only regularly posting Jew here and a believing one at that! Smile

I would just like to clear a few things up .

First let me say that I think it is great that you have these questions pressed upon your heart and that G-d has provided you a place to come ( thanks to Steve) to voice them without too much reservation, where we can talk and learn and love together. Smile

cheers

The Chosen people. We are called that for a reason. because G-d choose us for a specific relationship with him, to bring proper worship of him into the world and to also bring forth the promised Messiah foretold in Genesis 3:15. We were entrusted with his Holy Oracles, his divine words and revelations, and were to be a light to the nations.
To put it succinctly, The world can see that G-d exists because Jews still exist, despite all determination by man after man, country after country to destroy us. No

We were chosen to be an example to the world, and special in that way but we were chosen to suffer too, just like Paul says in Romans. Some were cut off so the gentiles may come in and find life because without the Jews there is no salvation and therefore, no life!

It's not a matter of preference, of being the favored child like many Christians get jealous and speak out about it. Yes, he loves us but also told us that he had others, and he would love them too. But we are different in that we have two different callings, but the love is the same, as long as we love in return and are obedient to him. There are certain things that distinguish Israel, and certain things she is called to do to make that presence known and shouldn't be mixed up with gentiles or Christians doing. And then there are other things that children of G-d should do wither native born or strangers who have decided to follow the G-d of Israel.

Going to a modern day Traditional synagogue service would only let you see through a glass darkly a bit of what Yeshua experienced. Todays Judaism is different since the destruction of the temple and the final revolt in 135AD. It is much different, and based more on Talmud ( a commentary by many Rabbis on the Torah) than Torah ( the first five books of the bible). You would hear the Torah read in Hebrew, which Yeshua did, and you would hear ancient and not so ancient liturgy, and prayers. The feasts are still celebrated in synagogue but not near what Yeshua experienced, because, again, no temple.

A good book for you to read would be this one, you don't even have to purchase it, just read online or download and read off-line

The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - by Alfred Edersheim

http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/

Now as to what you were told when calling. First whomever you spoke to was probably afraid by what you stated.silent Wink If you want to go to a synagogue, they do welcome gentiles and even Christians, but it is best to keep that to yourself. You should have just told him you were curious about the Jewish faith and would like to come to a service. If it was a High Holy day there may be a ticket involved. But I am sure by his response he felt as if you might come proselytizing and they don't ( understandably) allow that.

I'm going to break down the rest of your questions here.

Quote :
So.....who does God prefer..........the Jews, or Christians ??
He loves both, there is no preference except maybe to those who obey willingly, and not because they are Jewish, or because they are afraid. But in the world wide picture, yes, he does say that Israel ( obedient and not so) is the apple of his eye and he has not rejected her , nor foresaken her nor turned away from her forever, remember there is a time of the gentiles and it is almost up!


Quote :
If Jews reject Jesus, yet Jesus says, no one can get to the Father except through him.....who is right...can both be right ??
Not all do reject him, I am living proof, and I know many, many Jews who believe, this is a relatively new thing, since the re founding of Israel in 1948, but now there are 100,000's round the world, born Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah! Baruch haShem! ( Praise his name! ) Some are in Christian churches because they were raised Reform or non observant at all, and many who were raised Conservative or even Observant who are Messianic Jews and practice Messianic Judaism , keeping Shabbat and Kashrut and other things given to Israel to keep.

But there are many who love the L-RD G-d of Israel but he has not revealed just yet to many of them that his promised Salvation is the same Jesus that they were killed in the name of by many so called Christians. You have to understand the history here between Jews and Christians to fully grasp this, there are many today that still call a Jew a Christ Killer. Sad


Quote :
I thought salvation could only come though Jesus...... or is there a different heaven for Jews and Christians. ???
Remember what Yeshua told the Samaritan woman, Salvation comes from the Jews. Salvation of gentiles only comes through the Jews, and through the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua. For the Jews, those who are religious, and love G-d, they already know he is our Salvation. He told us that back when He took us out of Egypt, but some Jews believed Yeshua was the promised Messiah, and some didn't so that gentiles would have a part in the world to come.

Quote :
A Jesus heaven for the Christians and an OT God the Father heaven for the Jews ?
Of course not, Yeshua said he was going to prepare a place ( and he was speaking to Jews) for those who love him. There will be a time when all Jews have the opportunity to have the blindness removed that G-d put on them for the sake of the gentiles, to really know who Yeshua was and is, and they will believe, they will repent and weep and mourn for him because they will finally see whom they rejected was the one whom they so longed for!

Quote :
If I wanted to become a Jew, I'd have to reject Jesus....so then would I lose my salvation....??? cheers
Why would you want to become a Jew? You are loved being a gentile. Paul even said you are to remain in the place you were called. Which means, I remain a Jew, you remain a gentile and HaShem is glorified in both!

Hope that helps a bit. Smile Good questions and have you wondered why you care? Wink



Thank you for all the time and effort you're putting into answering my questions. Funny thing, when I joined this forum it was ok at first, then I saw all this "Jewish" stuff and thought....this isn't of any interest to me, I'm a gentile and Christian, my husbands grandparents were Jewish, but that's the only real contact I have with Jews. So I didn't come in for awhile, then Steve sent me a pm saying that....shucks....Catrin missed me, and would I come back....and suddenly, I have all these questions about Jewish things popping into my head.....go figure!!! Question Do I wonder why I care about Jewish things....well, I am always trying to get closer to G-d....gee, I'm even spelling the word the way you do now.... Very Happy I still think pigs are ok and I think some of the statements made about them being ugly and making horrible noises etc are "over the top"....HOWEVER....I have noticed that when I've gone to do the shopping these last couple of weeks, when I'm in the meat department, I look at pork and think...mmmmm, I'm not surposed to eat this anymore....just seems a bit odd to think that way. Not saying I won't eat it again, but I give it a second look now. Smile It's no big deal for me not to eat pork, I rarely have it anyway, as I've said before, I'm mostly a lamb person.......Don't know if I've run out of questions, but it sure has been interesting, and if I think of anything else, I'll be sure to ask don't worry about that. Very Happy Thanks again for your interest and love,

Vella. queen
My pleasure! I am sure that the L-RD is moving in ways we can not see. You say your husband's grandparents were Jews, that means he is as well. This may be why you are being pressed with all these questions.

The L-RD is pouring out his spirit on the whole house of Israel and your husband is part of that, and you being joined to him are as well.

Smile Look forward to talking to you again soon! Smile

In 1993 we met some American Jews and were telling them about Brians family with the Jewish side to it, but they said Brian wasn't a Jew, because his grandfather married a gentile woman, and that the line is carried down on the female side. Apparently what happened was...Myer Finn, a Polish Jew escaped Poland because of persecution when he was 19. He was a school teacher and went to live in Newcastle, England, where he found a job at the local Christian school. He married a relative of the minister, thus the Jewish line ending. So it wasn't actually "both" his grandparents, just his one grandfather, but before then they would have all been Jews on his mothers side of the family. His mother was "half" Jewish I guess, having a Jewish father. On Brians paternal side of the family, they are all English Gentiles as far as I know. Actually my first husband had a Jewish link via a grandparent too....but his family "didn't like to talk about it"....!!!

I've written Brians aunt in England, his mothers sister, and asked what she knows about the Jewish side of the family, that was a couple of months ago, but I haven't heard back from her.

Vella.queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:59 pm

Yes, American, and every other nationality of Jews will tell you that. That is Jewish halacha. But is it G-ds?

Was King David Jewish? He had a gentile Grandmother, Ruth, of course they will tell you she converted, Smile

Anyway, the lines in the Bible come from the fathers side, in Jesus' genealogies you will see two women, and both gentiles, I think that is why they are mentioned. But he was and still is Jewish, else he couldn't be considered the Lion of the tribe of Judah! Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:12 pm

Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Yes, American, and every other nationality of Jews will tell you that. That is Jewish halacha. But is it G-ds?

Was King David Jewish? He had a gentile Grandmother, Ruth, of course they will tell you she converted, Smile

Anyway, the lines in the Bible come from the fathers side, in Jesus' genealogies you will see two women, and both gentiles, I think that is why they are mentioned. But he was and still is Jewish, else he couldn't be considered the Lion of the tribe of Judah! Wink

Oh, that's very interesting. These people were from New York if I remember correctly. They said when the mans father came as a refugee to America after the war, he couldn't speak English and the port authorities couldn't understand what his surname was, so they just said.....Israel...and that became their surname from then on, and this couple didn't know what the original surname was, which they found upsetting. They said ... Israel...was given to many Jewish refugees, because they couldn't make the authorities understand their real surnames. These people had a very hostile attitude towards us at first, but once we told them Brian had Jewish ancestory, they became more friendly. We just met them one time at a guest house we were staying at in Scotland, back in 1993.

Vella.queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:28 am

Yes, much got mangled at Ellis Island. Sad

Also many Jews took this opportunity to change their names to appear more "mainstream' more American so as not to have the prejudice that was on them in Europe, nor the possibility of being rounded up again because they had a Jewish sounding name.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Vella
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
avatar

Posts : 136
Join date : 2007-08-24
Age : 67
Location : Australia

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:05 am

Psalms_119:105 wrote:
Yes, much got mangled at Ellis Island. Sad

Also many Jews took this opportunity to change their names to appear more "mainstream' more American so as not to have the prejudice that was on them in Europe, nor the possibility of being rounded up again because they had a Jewish sounding name.

My first husbands surname is ..... Rosman ....which apparently is very Jewish. I know his parents often received unsolicited things from the Jewish community. I believe my husband was an Anglican by religion and when he married my mother-in-law he became a Catholic, as she was a Catholic.

I'm not sure if it was my husbands grandfather or step-grandfather who was Jewish, but anyway, both the real and step children took on the name Rosman. My sons name is Christopher Rosman, and of course my daughter has changed her surname now she's married.

Vella. queen
Back to top Go down
View user profile
GerTzedek



Posts : 6
Join date : 2007-09-12

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:13 am

Vella, whether or not a person is of Christian faith, whether they belong to the Baptist church or are a practicing Catholic, has nothing to do with their Jewish status. Maybe you already know this, and if so, pardon the interruption! The Jewish community at large will consider a Jew of Yeshua-faith to be an apostate, but still a Jew. There really isn't anything that can "un-Jew" a Jew -- they are born to the People and the Covenant. This is why the early believers who were Jews continued in covenant faithfulness.

YOu have asked which G-d prefers, Jews or Christians? That is like asking which of my children I prefer, my son or my daughter!

Remember that according to scripture, Christians are part of the People of G-d only by virtue of the fact that they are grafted onto... ISRAEL. It doesn't make gentile believers Jews any more than grafting an Oleastar (wild olive) branch onto an Olive tree makes the branch an Olive branch. But the purpose of grafting is to provide a better root system, and the quality of the Oleastar fruit will be superior. Christians are, as Paul says, part of the COMMONWEALTH of Israel. Again, this doesn't make them Jews any more than a Canadian being part of the British Commonwealth makes him a Brit. But it does draw a larger circle of "People of G-d" to include those who are not Jews -- IF they have that connection to Israel.

Basically, no Israel, no Church! The root problem (hardy har!) with Replacement Theology is that by disparaging Israel and cutting away from Israel, it cuts itself off from the very source of nutrition intended by G-d. This is why Replacement Theology led to anti-Semitism and its subsequent Pogroms and the Holocaust -- bad doctrine leads to evil behavior.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JewishTaskForceWoman
Member
Member
avatar

Posts : 83
Join date : 2008-01-01
Age : 44
Location : Australia, Southern Victoria

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:02 am

Quote :
'jews reject jesus'

No Jew rejects Jesus, just see him differently, there are four major types of Jew each with a different take.

Regardless of everything, Jesus was a Jew. And not a God in the eyes of Judaism.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php
JewishTaskForceWoman
Member
Member
avatar

Posts : 83
Join date : 2008-01-01
Age : 44
Location : Australia, Southern Victoria

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:10 am

My mistake I thought this was a Jewish subforum, regarding Jewish belief.

Seems that your more on the attack than asking for an opinion.

Once again I will remember not to post Jewish thought here.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:13 am

MODERATOR NOTE:

This IS the Jewish forum and all Jews are allowed to post freely here. There is also a debate area should anyone wish to debate a religious or secular subject there.

JewishTaskForceWoman, let me take this oppurtunity to welcome you here. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
JewishTaskForceWoman
Member
Member
avatar

Posts : 83
Join date : 2008-01-01
Age : 44
Location : Australia, Southern Victoria

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:24 am

Thank you for the welcome Psalms
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php
Psalms_119:105
Co-Admin
Co-Admin
avatar

Posts : 460
Join date : 2007-08-23
Age : 63
Location : USA

PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:00 pm

be'vakasha!thumbs up


Moderator Note: I have cleaned up this thread and hope that is will stay a civil discussion. If not I will have to close this.

Again, there is a debate forum for those who wish to avail themselves of it. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://verypeculiarpeople.forumotion.com/portal.htm
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: God's chosen people and Jesus....   

Back to top Go down
 
God's chosen people and Jesus....
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» How Many "Well Connected" People Do You Know?
» Open letter to Trustees of Missing People Limited
» Flash Floods in Russia kill 99 people
» 37 people shot, 9 killed in GUN-FREE CHICAGO OVER THE WEEKEND.
» For all the people interested in losing weight

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
our father abraham :: Congregational Gatherings :: Judaism - From Orthodox to Messianic-
Jump to: