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 difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'

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tturt
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PostSubject: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:01 pm

Trying to get some Bible study materials together - what did the birthright usually consist of and what did the blessings usually mean.

Also, in reading the Isaac, Jacob and Esau scriptures again - it seems Isaac learned that Jacob had gotten the blessing instead of Esau (which I understand only one of the children could have) and then the next morning he seems to be fine with it and gave him the blessings that went with Abraham (Chapter 288). I realize that this 2nd blessing of Jacob was unusual, too.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:13 pm

i read this passage again last night and this afternoon - its this weeks parasha.


Steve
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:41 pm

Hi Turtt, did you read these two posts I made for you on the subjects?

http://jewsandchristians.forumotion.com/non-denominational-f1/jacob-s-name-not-deceiver-t151.htm

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:04 pm

I am not sure what you are looking for here.
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:37 am

Yes, I reread the info AND I very much appreciate all of it.

I thought that the birthright and the blessing were basically the same thing in relationship to Isaac and his sons?.

CJB: Chapter 27:36 ".” "Esau said, “His name, Jacob (he supplants), really suits him – b/c he has
supplanted me these two times; he took away my birthright, and here, now he has
taken away my blessing!”

What did the birthright include at that time (prior to Deut standard of doubt portion)?

Blessings:
The end of his life blessing, Isaac gave Jacob instead of Esau - family leadership but nothing is said about his material wealth. Or by him being the family's leader automatically mean he had most of the wealth?

CJB: 27:27
“He approached and kissed him Isaac smelled his clothes and blessed Jacob with these words: “See, my son smells like a field which Adonai has blessed. So may God give you dew from heaven, the richness of the earth, and grain and wine in abundance. V 29 May peoples serve you and nations bow down to you. May you be lord over your kinsmen, let your mother’s descendants bow down to you. Cursed be everyone who curses you, and blessed be everyone who blesses you!”

In regards to the blessings of Abraham, if he didn't know that Jacob was the one chosen of the two, why didn't he give Esau those blessings? (at the end of Chapter 27). Chapter 28:1 Isaac doesn't appear to be upset with Jacob any longer & gave him this blessing (v3-4 below).

CJB: Chapt 28:1 “So Isaac called Jacob, and, after blessing him,
charged him: “You are not to choose a wife from the Hitti women. V 3 May El Shaddai bless you, make you fruitful and increase your descendants, until they become a whole assembly of peoples. V 4 And may he give you the blessing which he gave Abraham, you and your descendants with you, so that you possess the land you will travel through, the land God gave to Abraham.”

If this info has already been posted, I'm very sorry for asking again.
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:11 am

Here's a Christian explanation of this, and the usage in the NT taken from the Septuagint.
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:21 am

where?
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:02 pm

Opps, Duh, I forgot to post the link Embarassed

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=582
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:49 pm

tturt wrote:
Yes, I reread the info AND I very much appreciate all of it.

I thought that the birthright and the blessing were basically the same thing in relationship to Isaac and his sons?.

CJB: Chapter 27:36 ".” "Esau said, “His name, Jacob (he supplants), really suits him – b/c he has
supplanted me these two times; he took away my birthright, and here, now he has
taken away my blessing!”

What did the birthright include at that time (prior to Deut. standard of doubt portion)?
I think this may be your misunderstanding, The Torah has always existed, there are many places I could point this out but will let you find some. It wasn't' written down until Moshe was instructed to by HaShem, but it still existed, back from the Garden. (Read Gen 26:5)Very Happy

The birthright was one of priority, responsibility and inheritance. When you were the first born you would normally be first in line to receive the bulk of your fathers estate. This included the responsibility of running the family business so to speak. The whole weight of the family, business, good name, relationship to their surrounding neighbors,their security all fell upon the shoulders of the eldest. Today I guess you could compare this to the monarchy. Prince Charles being the first born has carried more responsibilities and been held accountable for the family name more so than his younger brother Andrew. He is the next in line for the throne, the family business, and all the responsibility it entails than his brother.

Basically the eldest would be taking the place of his father in all aspects including taking care of his mother should see survive his fathers in death, and only limited to not having the marital relations, but in every other aspect would replace the father. And he would be responsible for also teaching his children and mainly firstborn the family business as it would be passed down to him some day.

In Deut. the only thing that 'changes' not really , but is an add- on condition, because now something different has happened , G-ds people now will have a land to call their own, they will no longer be wandering nomads or slaves to another country. Thus Deut. sets out the land parceled off according to how many in each tribe. All received a portion which would be passed down to their children in perpetuity, all except the Levites, the priests as their inheritance was what was the L-RD's. There is a special case brought up in Deut. about the sisters who have no brothers and about if they could inherit for their fathers portion, and it was decided they could.

tturt wrote:
Blessings:
The end of his life blessing, Isaac gave Jacob instead of Esau - family leadership but nothing is said about his material wealth. Or by him being the family's leader automatically mean he had most of the wealth?
Yes, they went hand in hand, you could not run the family business without it's wealth, in this case it was owner of many herds and people, that was the wealth. As you can see by the passages, Esau was more concerned with being out in the wild while Jacob helped to tend his father's sheep, that is why he was so clever when tending Laban's sheep and how he increased from nothing to the great herd he came out from Syria with.

In the beginning of the story, we are told that Isaac favored
Esau because he liked the wild meat he procured, this is not a spiritual reason to love someone,nor to pass on something so precious that was passed down to him by his father Abraham.

I believe that when Esau came in from hunting, famished, that Jacob saw this as an opportunity to get a definitive answer to what he had been suspecting about his brother all along, that he had no respect for the family business, and would bring it to ruin, he only cared about himself and being out in the wild, not the family, not the responsibilities of the herds and peoples. We can see this in the way Esau reacts after he has sated his hunger on what Jacob provided ( from the fields, the lentils) , it says he 'got up and when on his way'. His way was not the family way, and thus Jacob secured the inheritance for the sake of the family, so as not to have it left to one who didn't care one way or another about it, it meant nothing to him.

tturt wrote:
CJB: 27:27
“He approached and kissed him Isaac smelled his clothes and blessed Jacob with these words: “See, my son smells like a field which Adonai has blessed. So may God give you dew from heaven, the richness of the earth, and grain and wine in abundance. V 29 May peoples serve you and nations bow down to you. May you be lord over your kinsmen, let your mother’s descendants bow down to you. Cursed be everyone who curses you, and blessed be everyone who blesses you!”

In regards to the blessings of Abraham, if he didn't know that Jacob was the one chosen of the two, why didn't he give Esau those blessings? (at the end of Chapter 27). Chapter 28:1 Isaac doesn't appear to be upset with Jacob any longer & gave him this blessing (v3-4 below).
As you can see, G-d chose Jacob, and told this to Rebbecca, but Isaac was more in tuned to his love of Esau because he loved the outcome of his wild wanderings, his hunting. If you look at The blessing that Isaac thought he was giving Esau, you will see it was not what he would have wanted in the first place. The grain and wine are things that need a husbandman to attend to, planting and harvesting, and tending lovingly a vineyard. These were things that Jacob was skilled in, not Esau.

Jacob was not the one who thought this up, It was his mother because she remembered what Adonai had told her when she still carried them in her womb, that the elder would serve the younger, and she knew if Isaac was to give him the blessing and inheritance of the first born that would not happen. In fact Jacob was afraid that he would be cursed for doing this and she was willing to sacrifice and take that curse upon herself but she knew and believed what HaShem had said to her about her two boys.



tturt wrote:
CJB: Chapt 28:1 “So Isaac called Jacob, and, after blessing him,charged him: “You are not to choose a wife from the Hitti women. V 3 May El Shaddai bless you, make you fruitful and increase your descendants, until they become a whole assembly of peoples. V 4 And may he give you the blessing which he gave Abraham, you and your descendants with you, so that you possess the land you will travel through, the land God gave to Abraham.”

If this info has already been posted, I'm very sorry for asking again.

At the time (even before the blessing) Esau had taken heathen wives and Isaac along with Rebekah were not pleased about this, that is why he said what he did to Jacob, I think by then he realized that even though Esau was born first that he shouldn't be passed on the family wealth, being material things as well as the promises ,made to his father Abraham.
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:18 pm

Quote :
25:25And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Quote :
25:25The
first to come out was reddish and covered all over with hair, like a
coat; so they named him 'Esav [completely formed, that is, having hair
already].

Quote :
35 He replied, "Your brother came deceitfully and took away your blessing."
36 'Esav
said, "His name, Ya'akov [he supplants], really suits him - because he
has supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright, and
here, now he has taken away my blessing!"

Jacob was following his mother's order, he was being obedient to her as the commandment requires. She was going by what the L-RD had revealed to her. In reality Jacob did not take away Esau's birthright, Esau regarded it as nothing and traded it for a bowl of soup. And with that birthright comes the most best blessing, so he got what went with the birthright.

See Esau wanted the blessings, but not the responsibility of the firstborn. Jacob traded no light thing, this brought much responsibility upon his shoulders, something he didn't have to do, but because he was the more righteous of the two , the one HaShem favored ( Jacob I loved, Esau I hated), he stepped up to the plate, so the blessing was rightfully his, although either Isaac didn't know beforehand of the trading of the birthright until now when Esau cried out about it, or he was too enamored with the hunting of his other son, and the delight his flesh took in it.

I see in their birth that with Jacob holding unto his heel, this is a picture of saying even though Esau came out first he did not come out alone, because he had another attached to him.
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tturt
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:41 am

Thanks so much!
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:20 pm

You're welcome! Are you studying the parsha? Sounds like you are doing a teaching, do you have a home group?

Shabbat Shalom!
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PostSubject: Re: difference between birthright and blessing (end of patriach'   Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:39 am

My dh is leading our studies this month at our church. I'm just doing the research so he can sort through it & select what he wants. Of course, it always gets a lot more b/c 1 question leads to another question, etc. But I learn a lot in the process. The original idea was to look at Leah and Rachel's lives.

One author said that because Jacob buried Leah with his parents and then later was buried with her that indicated that he did develop strong feelings for her after Rachel's death. Is that a reasonable deduction? I don't know what the customs were at that time.

Also, working on Biblical definitions of "soul" and "spirit," and seven of the spirits of Yahweh (wisdom, knowledge, understanding, counsel & fear of the Lord in particular). If there's anything you want to share on those topics, I'm all ears.
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