hello. Im a Yahhuwdym!!

Hello My name is Jude and I found this site via a random chat on netmums. So thanks for linking me in. Im married to Rob and we have 2 kids.

This is my story- well the brief version anyway....

About 2 years ago a friend of ours was challenged about God's name. He came to talk to us about it, so we started doing some praying and research which started a journey of discovery for us and has brought us to a place of new found freedom and excitement in our relationship with God. We've been challenged about nealry every aspect of our Christian faith and now find ourselves living out our Christianity in a very different way to the mainstream.

We have been doing sabbath worship at home for about 18months.
Basically we have "special tea" on Friday night then after the kids go
to bed we do a grown ups Bible study (with a friend from church) then
saturday we do a bible study with the kids, and spend family time
(picnic, park, etc)



We have been trying to get our heads round the feasts too. They are
really cool but like you we don't really know what we're doing yet!!
For tabernacles we built a tent in the house and buy presents for each
other. The others we try and have a nice meal, worship, pray, teach the
kids a bit of what they are about. Oh for first fruits we made little
paper baskets and filled them with sweets and chocolate.



The biggest thing for us really is Gods name. He really spoke to us
about referring to his as Yahweh - not that all the titles like father,
provider, saviour etc are bad but just because Christianity is supposed
to be about relationship and if you know someone well then you use
their name I suppose.



We've also stopped eating pork which is really weird, we thought it
would just benefit us health wise (seeing as pigs are walking trash
cans and full of nasty stuff) but we really felt God wanted us to stop
eating it and almost immediately we got this huge heart for people.



Our church leaders think we are crazy and don't want us to tell anyone
how we feel, but we really believe this stuff is right and have found a
few people round the world with similar views. We are not trying to be
legalistic or get more Jewish, but just feel that we shouldn't ignore
the things God told his people to do.

So now we are at the stage of leaving church and setting up our own thing. Its a scarey and sad time , we love our friends in our church, but the leaders think we have opened ourselves up to heresy. We are really excited by what God has revealed to us, and cant wait to see what he has in store for us next.

What we've discovered is that the more you are obedient to God in the small things the more he trusts us with the big.

Anyway...hope that makes sense, we would love to hear what you think of it, and please ask me questions if you want to know more. Im really looking forward to learning some cool stuff from all of you

Welcome, I'm glad you found us Ok. Its really great to have you here. Looking forward to many happy conversations.:sunny:

Catrin xx

wow.

keeping the sabbath, celebrating the festivals, not eating pork (what about other unclean foods). Some Jews would be very impressed.

This christian is thats for sure. I downloaded a messianic sabbath siddur today and its very good. Even the wife is impressed by it.

All that aside though it is nice to have you on the forum. Email everyone else you know and we should grow into a nice little online family.


steve in chesterfield

Hi Cyberlizard!

Yes we do not eat any unclean foods actually - but seeing as I hate seafood with a passion anyway, the only real change to our diet has been pork and the odd prawn cocktail for Rob.

In all essence we are Christians through and through, but that title doesnt really match what we're about anymore. Rob would rather be a mystery to people than have a label at all, but I find Yahhuwdym works for me- it means member of Yahweh's family.

We are not Jews and never will be and for us following all these things isnt about being more like the Jews, as lovely as they are, its just pure and simple obedience. God created us, he knows whats best for us, and He knows how He wants to be worshipped. Its actually a much simpler and relaxed way to live, much less legalistic than Christianity!!

If you've got the time check out the Owners manual on yadayahweh.com it makes a whole lot of sense.

Juski, I'd like to know what denomination ("church") you were going to? After all you said that they viewd your decision to leave as having opened yourselves up to heresy!

sincerely, Scott

Hi

We are members of an open brethren church. They think we are heretics because we said that the Bible doesnt tell us to take communion (in the take a tiny piece of bread and pass it on variety) and because we said we dont like the tiles Christ and Jesus!

Our church is very closed minded anyway, no women in leadership for example. They like to take one random text and base their entire theology on it totally out of context.

At the mo we are swaying between leaving and staying- we want to leave bt dont want to loss the fellowship of church. Its a tough decision but we have to choose God over man everytime.

I was brought up in the Brethern, I cant say much more than that as if I did it probably wouldnt be very nice!

Needless to say, its taken a long time for me to be free from much of their teaching. That said I did gain a good basic knowledge of the Bible from them.

Catrin xx

Well, Praise God for your heart toward Him. I'd just like to toss a thought of encouragement to ya. Remember that nothing should be done out of a "rebellious" attitude. I'm not sayin u got one but just be careful. Also, our Father doesn't care how we remember what Yashua did for us but that we remember! w/ bread and wine/juice. - What's important is that our Lord God is glorified! In my "eyes" you are not heretics at all but don't make any decisions based on titles either! Yehovah (did i spell it right?) loves you very much! no matter where yer at physically, emotionally, "maturally?" (is that a word?) Just draw as close as you can get to Him or as close as you desire because He is SO WORTHY!

Praise God!
Scott


Glorify your God!

Hi Scott,

I don't want to be rude or offend you so please dont take this the wrong way but...

What Ive discovered over the past couple of years is that God does care how we celebrate and He is bothered which day we worship.

Its kind of like the whole parent child relationship - our parents sometimes tell us to do/not do somethings, and we dont really like it, right. But what they are telling us is for our own good as we grow up and have kids of our own we realise that the things they told us to do were really of benefit to us. They were protecting us and raising us in the best way.

In the same way Yahweh is our daddy, he made us and he knows what is best for us. So for example in the Bible, He tells us which foods are healthy to eat, and He tells us to take a sabbath to rest. We sometimes think God is just spoiling our fun, the church tells us we dont have to "obey rules" but in any healthy parent-child relationship there is love, there is disipline and there is obedience.

Yes Yahweh loves us more than we will ever know which is why he is so gracious to us. Yes he likes being worshipped everyday, and yes he likes people to remember what he did for them, but He also wants the respect He disserves, when He tells us to do something we should do it - we may not understand why, but He does.

You are right: He is absolutely so worthy, which is why what looks like rebellion towards the church, is actually pure obedience to my Daddy.

Keep seeking Him, God has so much more for us than we know.

Ju

You are right about the rest. We have decided to start and celebrate the Sabbath to.

On friday we did tea, well chinese takeaway (it was my birthday) and then rested all day saturday. I didnt think this would be hard, after all I'm quite lazy on a saturday normally, but I found it really difficult, I kept looking at that washing basket thinking "I really need to get that washing done" but I didnt, just had a good rest, which I really needed, I'd had such a busy week, and it was great, the best day off I've had in ages, so there is something to be said for worshipping on a Sabbath.

Catrin xx

Zaksmum, are you sayin that someone can rest a whole day, no matter which day it is, as long as yer celebrating t/ Sabbath? How much of that day should someone spend w/ Yahweh? What kind of "schedule" might someone use?

LOL, Curiousity aint gonna kill this cat!

Have a Happy & Blessed day!

Scott
"Glorify your God!"

it is a day of rest (sabbath / shabbat).

it is a day of rest appointed by the Lord. That is given over for the Lord, NOT necessarily to the Lord.

so on this day, it is expected that you will break from your usual routine.

For example, if you drive cars for a living, on this day you do not drive. If you cook and slave over a stove every day to cook meals, then don't cook. If you're an IT nerd for a living, on this day leave the PC alone. I you get the drift.

In the early church, the day was a day of getting together with your friends and having social time together. Often this involved praying together, reading the scriptures together and having a pre-cooked meal together.

remember Scott that the sabbath is as ordained by God and so runs from friday at sunset to saturday at sunset, if you follow the biblical model, or just sunday (if you want to adopt a 'christian' version).

Either way though, God instituted the sabbath, jesus upheld it and it will never disappear, unless the stars can be counted (so the scripture says - basically means the sabbath will be as regular as the laws of nature).

If you want to see a 'schedule' that some people use, email me and i will send you a version we have at home which is a 'messianic sabbath service' for holding at home - though i must tell you, unless you have your own place, your family and friends may think you have gone nuts.


All the best

Steve

Hey dudes,

For me Im not too legalistic about the sabbath but see it as an opportunity to worship, and play. So Friday nights are our main spiritual time - we have a Bible study and worship together with anyone that wants to come round. Saturdays we chill out, go for a picnic, walk, play with the kids, have a short Bible time with kids -usually a colouring sheet and a story or something and worship together as a family. But equally if we really need to go to the shops we'll go, if a friend needs help movign house or something we'll help. If theres an event on at church we'll go help with it.

For me, I never want the sabbath to be something thats legalistic and governed by rules, we do these things but in any order, and if we dont manage one week, we'll try again another. God loves the willing heart and knows that for many of us the whole sabbath thing is a new concept. I dont think it is necessarily about total rest, (with small kids thats somewhat an impossibility Ive found!) but about stepping back and reflecting on the week thats been and the week to come.

What I can say though is taking the sabbath has been an amazing blessing to our family, we are closer to each other and to God as a result.

Hi Jude -

For the most part, these are the same areas for us - well, it's probably been about a year. We've been critcized for observing the feasts (not at our church though) and tried to explain why. Their opinion: those who observe the feasts were trying to seem more religious than other Christians, etc, etc.. But dh & I know what we're being prompted to do and have a lot to learn. The explanations of keeping the sabbath info contained on this thread have been helpful so we can relook at that.

Like you, the biggest emphasis has been on the name - His name, Yahweh.

Its good to know we're not the only ones!!! Whats your story then? How did it all begin for you?

Looking back several things were going on at 1 time. We were studying re: praise and worship. I had thought they were the same thing. Plus everywhere I looked I saw "My name" so it prompted a study of His name and attributes.

When reading about the feasts, I wondered why aren't we observing these? Discussing things with dh and learned that he had come to the same conclusion - we needed/wanted to.

We were already following some dietary guidelines since Dh is a vegetarian.

Sometimes we attend a couple of other non-denominational churches on Fri nights. One church has observed the feasts for several decades and the other church, Ingathering, has just recently been organized.

Your statement about "don't know what you're doing yet" fits us too. But like you - we're learning.

ah thats cool!

So how has this "new revelation" changed things for you? In the relationship with Yahweh kind of a way?

Juski wrote:

Hello My name is Jude and I found this site via a random chat on netmums. So thanks for linking me in. Im married to Rob and we have 2 kids.

This is my story- well the brief version anyway....

About 2 years ago a friend of ours was challenged about God's name. He came to talk to us about it, so we started doing some praying and research which started a journey of discovery for us and has brought us to a place of new found freedom and excitement in our relationship with God. We've been challenged about nealry every aspect of our Christian faith and now find ourselves living out our Christianity in a very different way to the mainstream.

We have been doing sabbath worship at home for about 18months.
Basically we have "special tea" on Friday night then after the kids go
to bed we do a grown ups Bible study (with a friend from church) then
saturday we do a bible study with the kids, and spend family time
(picnic, park, etc)



We have been trying to get our heads round the feasts too. They are
really cool but like you we don't really know what we're doing yet!!
For tabernacles we built a tent in the house and buy presents for each
other. The others we try and have a nice meal, worship, pray, teach the
kids a bit of what they are about. Oh for first fruits we made little
paper baskets and filled them with sweets and chocolate.



The biggest thing for us really is Gods name. He really spoke to us
about referring to his as Yahweh - not that all the titles like father,
provider, saviour etc are bad but just because Christianity is supposed
to be about relationship and if you know someone well then you use
their name I suppose.



We've also stopped eating pork which is really weird, we thought it
would just benefit us health wise (seeing as pigs are walking trash
cans and full of nasty stuff) but we really felt God wanted us to stop
eating it and almost immediately we got this huge heart for people.



Our church leaders think we are crazy and don't want us to tell anyone
how we feel, but we really believe this stuff is right and have found a
few people round the world with similar views. We are not trying to be
legalistic or get more Jewish, but just feel that we shouldn't ignore
the things God told his people to do.

So now we are at the stage of leaving church and setting up our own thing. Its a scarey and sad time , we love our friends in our church, but the leaders think we have opened ourselves up to heresy. We are really excited by what God has revealed to us, and cant wait to see what he has in store for us next.

What we've discovered is that the more you are obedient to God in the small things the more he trusts us with the big.

Anyway...hope that makes sense, we would love to hear what you think of it, and please ask me questions if you want to know more. Im really looking forward to learning some cool stuff from all of you

I have so many questions, so I guess I better start!

First welcome to the forums, I think I am the only resident Messianic Jew here so far.

I read your post and you say your name is Jude, but you are married to a man? Soooooooooo that brings up, if you are female how did you get the name Jude?

It is good to hear HaShem is speaking to your hearts and you are listening! Halleluyah!

I have a question about this:

Quote :

For tabernacles we built a tent in the house and buy presents for each
other.

Do you not have a yard? A tent is great but outdoors is better with an open natural roof if possible to look through and realize it is with HaShem provision that we all live. Also may I ask the significance of giving presents to each other?

Quote :

The biggest thing for us really is Gods name. He really spoke to us
about referring to his as Yahweh

did he tell you this was how to pronounce his name or did you read about this somewhere?

About the pork, it is an unclean beast, both physically and spiritually,l will explain more on this in the kosher forum.

Quote :

What we've discovered is that the more you are obedient to God in the small things the more he trusts us with the big.

amein! He does not call everyone out to the wilderness, and many are called but few are chosen, keep on the right path he has set you on and He will never fail you!

Quote :

but I find Yahhuwdym works for me- it means member of Yahweh's family.

I have never heard of this before, but phonitically it sounds like Yehudim which means Jews, so I am wondering too, where you got this name from?

Quote :

They think we are heretics because we said that the Bible doesnt tell us to take communion (in the take a tiny piece of bread and pass it on variety) and because we said we dont like the tiles Christ and Jesus!

Yes, most of Christiandom will think you heretical, but actually you are right, but what he did say was when you celebrate Passover to do it in rememberance of him, how his shed blood was the blood on the doorposts of our hearts that saves us from the angel of death ( Exodus chapt 12)

Quote :

We sometimes think God is just spoiling our fun, the church tells us we dont have to "obey rules" but in any healthy parent-child relationship there is love, there is disipline and there is obedience.

:thumbsup:

Quote :

But equally if we really need to go to the shops we'll go, if a friend needs help movign house or something we'll help. If theres an event on at church we'll go help with it.

Buying or selling is not done on Shabbat, if you wish to separate it out, make it holy, from the common days of the week you will do your buying and selling on the other six days, this is not legalistic, it is part of the commandments regarding keeping Shabbat.

Quote :

For me, I never want the sabbath to be something thats legalistic and governed by rules, we do these things but in any order, and if we dont manage one week, we'll try again another. God loves the willing heart and knows that for many of us the whole sabbath thing is a new concept. I dont think it is necessarily about total rest, (with small kids thats somewhat an impossibility Ive found!) but about stepping back and reflecting on the week thats been and the week to come.

This is where many gentiles get confused on the meaning of Shabbat. There is plenty to do on Shabbat, the rest is resting from common things and elevating yourself to a higher plane, that is why many extend Shabbat for an hour or so because that means you don't have to come back down to earth so soon.


zaksmummu said :

Quote :

but I found it really difficult, I kept looking at that washing basket thinking "I really need to get that washing done" but I didn't, just had a good rest, which I really needed,

look at it another way, I don't have to do that laundry today because the L-RD gave me a day off!

If your week is planned around Shabbat as from days of old, all work will be done, just like on earth here, when we get to that final Shabbat, the kingdom of G-d our work will be over and all we will have to do is to praise him and worship him and glorify our wondrous creator. Shabbat is actually a rehershal for that, did you know?

Tent - we're having thunder storms almost daily; otherwise, it's 100 degrees in the shade.

Outside anyway? Asking for next year - if you say yes, it'll take me a year to wrap my mind around that.

Hello

Wow,ok lots of questions but Ill do my best to answer - I am supposed to be reading long books on Irenaeus right now but that can wait!!

My name is actually Judith, and yes I am a woman! My friends used to call me Ju but this was a little confusing for people, so it became Jude.

We built our tabernacle inside because we do not have a yarden! But obviously if we did it would be outside so we could look at the stars - saying that in the city its quite difficult to see stars these days! The presents is really just about making tabernacles more significant than Christmas- we're trying to put a higher priority on God's feasts than man's, but with small kids its not easy. So in a step towards giving up Christmas we've decided to give gifts at tabernacles instead, the kids will get presents at Christmas but probably less untl eventually tabernacles becomes the time we bless our friends and family with gifts.

Yahweh - My husband could probably tell you why we pronounce Yahweh becasue he's read a whole lots more than me, and understands how hebrew works better than me too. But when God talks to me and mentions his name thats what He says so thats what I say. I see that you say HaShem - His Name right? Do you have a problem with using His name directly as the Jews do? Is it offensive to you?

The yahhuwdym thing is a name my friend suggested because he doesnt like been called a Christian anymore. It is definitely linked to the Jewish Yehudim but I forget why (again Im no book person) it has a slightly differetn meaning - obviously we are in the same Family but we gentiles are grafted onto the tree. I think its something to do with that

Yeah your right about not shopping on the sabbath and its something I do try to avoid but actually sometimes shopping is fun especially if we're going to buy stuff to bless someone else. Housework is a definite no no though - I try very hard to get the house in order before Friday teatime so I dont have to do anything and in fact doing that means that there is nothing to do on saturday other than the mere basics. I love the fact that its a rehersal so maybe I do need to work a bit harder at practicing for the real thing!!

So did that answer everything? Its great to have open dialogue about these things, we're very much on own in thinking like this and most of our friends avoid conversations which might start us "ranting that weird stuff" again!!

So how did you become a Messianic? How does that work out in terms of been in the middle of jew and Christians? --I guess they both think you're a bit odd?! What do think is going on with all these mainstream Christians becoming intersted in their Jewish roots?

Nice talking to you...and thanks for your encouraging words...its nice to talk to people that dont think Im a freak!! Im looking forward to learning lots from you all xxx

tturt wrote:

Tent - we're having thunder storms almost daily; otherwise, it's 100 degrees in the shade.

Outside anyway? Asking for next year - if you say yes, it'll take me a year to wrap my mind around that.

WOW! it's 85 here though, I thought it excellent sukkah weather! better than freezing like most years. Are you in the southern hemisphere?

Hi, juski, I will post inside your post to ask questions and answer, ok?

Juski wrote:

Hello

Wow,ok lots of questions but Ill do my best to answer - I am supposed to be reading long books on Irenaeus right now but that can wait!!

Quote :

Ah, boring! this is much more fun!

My name is actually Judith, and yes I am a woman! My friends used to call me Ju but this was a little confusing for people, so it became Jude.

Quote :

I thought it might be, are you aware that is a very Jewish name? It is the female, or feminine of Judah, and most only Jewish girls are named that, are you sure you aren't Jewish and your family never told you? I would explain why you have been on the path you have been on, for sure!

We built our tabernacle inside because we do not have a yarden! But obviously if we did it would be outside so we could look at the stars - saying that in the city its quite difficult to see stars these days! The presents is really just about making tabernacles more significant than Christmas- we're trying to put a higher priority on God's feasts than man's, but with small kids its not easy. So in a step towards giving up Christmas we've decided to give gifts at tabernacles instead, the kids will get presents at Christmas but probably less untl eventually tabernacles becomes the time we bless our friends and family with gifts.

Quote :

Ah, I'm sorry you have no place outside, what a shame. Perhaps before settling into it ( next year) you can go outside somewhere in a park and eat a bit and look up at the stars? His Majesty can be felt there, like so many thousands of years ago.

so you are basically making this Yeshua's birthday? Which there are many indications he was born on this day.

Yahweh - My husband could probably tell you why we pronounce Yahweh becasue he's read a whole lots more than me, and understands how hebrew works better than me too. But when God talks to me and mentions his name thats what He says so thats what I say.

Quote :

He has pronounced his name to you!!! wow! I haven't heard that said since He did that with Moshe on the mountain! ( read Ex 33-34)

I see that you say HaShem - His Name right? Do you have a problem with using His name directly as the Jews do? Is it offensive to you?

Quote :

HaShem= THE Name, as in yod heh vav heh. The Jews ( which I am one BTW) do not have a problem with pronouncing the name, in fact the name hasn't been pronounced since Ezras time and so to be sure not to profane it and to keep the commandment we say, Adonai, or G-d, or HaShem which is the most reverent. I am not sure what you are asking is offensive to me, His name, surely not, someone pronouncing it like they know how when the Rabbis for millennium have not known how and have not wanted to do it wrongly so haven't, yes, maybe. But I have seen many groups do this and am not responsible for what they do.

The yahhuwdym thing is a name my friend suggested because he doesnt like been called a Christian anymore. It is definitely linked to the Jewish Yehudim but I forget why (again Im no book person) it has a slightly differetn meaning - obviously we are in the same Family but we gentiles are grafted onto the tree. I think its something to do with that

Quote :

Personally I don't think this is a great tool to use to bring Jews who don't know Messiah to him, perhaps you should rethink it, have you looked into Messianic Judaism? there are many gentiles that are part of this movement.

Yeah your right about not shopping on the sabbath and its something I do try to avoid but actually sometimes shopping is fun especially if we're going to buy stuff to bless someone else. Housework is a definite no no though - I try very hard to get the house in order before Friday teatime so I dont have to do anything and in fact doing that means that there is nothing to do on saturday other than the mere basics. I love the fact that its a rehersal so maybe I do need to work a bit harder at practicing for the real thing!!

Quote :

Sounds wonderful! I don't think there are any shops in heaven anyway, I think all our needs are provided for and everyone else in the kingdom. I think it's wonderful that you want to bless others, and if it is an immediate need, this is mercy and I think HaShem approves, but if it could be bought some other day................ or you could take what you have from home to meet their needs. I am not legalistic as many think, I take each situation as it comes as I think he would want us to , always applying his commandments and His mercy for others. Love G-d , love others as yourself, not nullifying one to keep the other though.

So did that answer everything? Its great to have open dialogue about these things, we're very much on own in thinking like this and most of our friends avoid conversations which might start us "ranting that weird stuff" again!!

Quote :

I know what you mean, it happens no matter what background you come from, I think it is because it is right and true and very few find it and those that don't want it and are happy in what they think is right don't want you shining that light of truth on them and thus will always kvetch about it and do strange things to you to sabotage you , make you feel guilty, etc. Welcome here where we are mostly all oddballs.

So how did you become a Messianic? How does that work out in terms of been in the middle of jew and Christians? --I guess they both think you're a bit odd?! What do think is going on with all these mainstream Christians becoming intersted in their Jewish roots?

Quote :

I was sort of born Messianic, my Grandmother converted, and very much loved Yeshua. I grew up in a Christian home but knew there was something not quite right about the church so when I left home I went on a life long search that lead me to find Messianic Judaism, and I fit in pretty good, although I am more Orthodox than most. I've always been an outcast, oddball all my life so this is just one more thing. I stopped complaining about it when HaShem told me he made me that way, can't argue with the potter!

Frankly I think that many that are becoming interested may have a hidden Jewish background like many I've encountered on the net and in person. Yeshua is calling out his true church, those who truly belong to him and those are Jews who believe in him and gentiles who love the Jewish people and their Jewish Messiah and support Israel.

Nice talking to you...and thanks for your encouraging words...its nice to talk to people that dont think Im a freak!! Im looking forward to learning lots from you all xxx

Nice talking with you as well, don't feel discouraged, if you aren't in the majority you are closer to G-d than others, he isn't found in what the world thinks is right, there is put always a remnant and a remnant is small.

Hello Again!

So you say maybe im Jewish - you've got me pondering now I dont think I am certainly never have had any hints of Jewishness - I think my mum just liked the name. But who knows maybe you are right!

This whole thing about God's name is puzzling me too - in fact Ive asked my friends on my other forum about it so I'll let you know what they say later. I'm not convinced that Moses is the only person to here God's name ever, how do you know he is the only one thats ever heard it? And why do so many people think that we cannot pronounce His name? It may be too simplistic a view, but surely if we know how to say all other Hebrew words, then that gives us at least a hint of how to say YHWH? You've also got me thinking whether God has actually said yhwh to me when he's talking, now Im not so sure - maybe He has just said yes when I've asked Him if its his name? mmmm....much thought you have provoked!!!

Yahhuwdym - isnt something I particularly use in conversation, i dont really like referring to myself as a Christian anymore, so it kind of works for me. I asked my husband about it and he said its the Jewish word for gentile believer but I dont really know. I guess Im not really all that interested in bringing Jews to belief, as imprtant as that is. My passion is for getting the church sorted out and getting Christians to realise they are missing out on the fullness of relationship by sticking to their manmade ways!! So many people have spent so many years trying to show the Jews who the Messiah is, I dont really have anything new to add to that debate unfortunately.

Anyway...I really do have to read books on irenaeus today, otherwise I'll never get my coursework done. Have a lovely day

Hello me again,

I asked my friends on yadayahweh about pronouncing The Name and this is what one of them said. See what you think....

"The name was in common usage in Israel and was even used as a greeting as we can see in the book of Ruth. In Babylonian exile the Yahudim were still using the name of YHWH, but the Babylonians started to mock them calling them Yahoos. They didn't want the name on the lips of pagan defilers so they covered it up. That is when the ineffible Jewish culture began. Moshe was the introducer of the name to the greater Israelite nation. As far as it goes Abraham Yitzack and Yaaqob all knew the name as well.

We know that Yod and Heh make up the sound Yah as in HalleluYAH
We know that Yod, Heh, and Waw form Yahu, from the names in the scriptures and even modern names like Netanyahu
There is only one syllable left which is the last heh.

There are only a couple realistic pronounciations that could be viable
Yah-oo-eh
Yah-hoo-eh
Yah-oo-ah
Yah-hoo-ah

We can slim it down from there based on much of the evidence written about the name
Josephus wrote that the name's letter functioned as vowels in this case.
That would sorta do away with the hard h sound in the oo part of the name.

so is it ah or eh? Many people make the case for the ah ending because of Yahudah.....if you subtract the dalet you get YHWH. So their logical conclusion is that you get Yahuah.

But you have to take into account the fact that the final heh was modified by the dalet. Without that dalet it's a different story.

Icy put a good link in about the pronounciation of YHWH and I am not sure where it's from, I think it may be the Jehovah's witnesses or something and I was a little put off by that but if the theology is not sound the scholarship is.
http://yahweh.org/publications/sny/sn09Chap.pdf

In conclusion I don't see it really as a big deal. I am not going to hate or argue and yell and scream at a person who pronounces it Yahuah when I pronounce it Yahuweh. What matters is that we are making the effort and basing our effort to call on the name on scripture. The differences in pronounciation are minimal and we can all understand who we are calling on.

When I was in China, people often didn't pronounce my name perfectly
People would call me Jack instead of Jake
Jack-ob
Jack-ee
and even Jacaboo

But I knew they were trying to make an effort to pronounce my true name/nickname so I didn't mind

I think a lot of what we do for Yahuweh how we try to do his will is like children making breakfast in bed.

When you were young I am sure you tried to make breakfast in bed for your parents at least once. You probably spilled stuff, and burnt the toast and generally made a mess of things. Maybe you even added a flower in a little cup of water. The point is the breakfast was not good, but your parents probably loved it. You were trying to outwardly manifest your love for them through your act. It was far from perfect but it was an act of free will where you chose to manifest your love. We are all imperfect and we will never get things completely right when we do the things we do to manifest our love for Yahuweh, but he is not some Roman God who demands ritual perfection. He desires our attitudes and that our hearts are in it.

Now imagine that your parents went shopping and left you in charge of your baby sister. When they left you didn't change her because you weren't sure if she should wear the pampers or the Huggies, you didn't change her clothes because you weren't sure if she should wear the pink outfit or the red outfit, you didn't feed her because you didn't know if she was supposed to eat the carrots or the peas. Your parents come back and there is a baby screaming at the top of her lungs and you are sitting there. You justify your behavior by saying you thought it would be better to wait till they came back. Have you shown love to your parents or your sister or just a sort of vested apathy?

The name will be revealed soon enough, so what I suggest now is that we put all the arguing and infighing aside and realize in all that call on the name of YHWH, that we are trying to do his will out of a love for Him and what He has said in His scriptures.

I will fellowship with a person who calls on the name of Yahuah or Yahweh or any other name within reason eventhough I have come to the conclusion that Yahuweh is the truest pronounciation out there. I would much rather use a SLIGHTLY incorrect form of his true name than a substitution title of that name that he hates.

Baruch Hashem....YAHUWEH!!!....as Moshe Koniuchowsky would say"

Hi Jenski,

That was very informative and rather what I expected, we are in shabbat now here, and I don't want to go into depth about your posts, I would just like to ask a question about what your friend posted.

Quote :

than a substitution title of that name that he hates.

What name might that be?

Thanks!

Hello

Hope you had a good sabbath - we climbed a mountain - was so beautiful. Yahweh is amazing!!

The name God doesn't like is Lord (hope this doesnt offend anyone reading by the way- its not meant to be offensive just educational!)
Again if you want to know more then check out yadayahweh.com

But basically in most Bible's you will find if you look in the front that God's name is repaced with the LORD. I think Yahweh has been replaced by LORD 7000 times in all. Yahweh hates been called Lord because it means Baal. He is a relational being, and as such His name is important, just as our names are important to Him.

Anyway that is the quick answer, I will try to find the link and post it so if you want to read the detail behind that rather random comment you can.
Enjoy the rest your weekend

I can see why he would get annoyed by having his name changed 7000 times to something else, I get annoyed when my name isnt pronounced or spelt properly!

Juski wrote:

Hello

Hope you had a good sabbath - we climbed a mountain - was so beautiful. Yahweh is amazing!!

The name God doesn't like is Lord (hope this doesnt offend anyone reading by the way- its not meant to be offensive just educational!)
Again if you want to know more then check out yadayahweh.com

But basically in most Bible's you will find if you look in the front that God's name is repaced with the LORD. I think Yahweh has been replaced by LORD 7000 times in all. Yahweh hates been called Lord because it means Baal. He is a relational being, and as such His name is important, just as our names are important to Him.

Anyway that is the quick answer, I will try to find the link and post it so if you want to read the detail behind that rather random comment you can.
Enjoy the rest your weekend

Hi, glad you had a wonderful weekend!

To address your points.

So is this a revalation he has given to you alone that he doesn't like being called L-RD? or to your whole group?

See the thing is, L-RD in Hebrew, is Adonai. This may help you to understand the usage from a Jewish standpoint, from those who were instructed and given the oracles of G-d.

Jews do not casually write any Name of God. This practice does not come from the commandment not to take the Lord's Name in vain, as many suppose. In Jewish thought, that commandment refers solely to oath-taking, and is a prohibition against swearing by God's Name falsely or frivolously (the word normally translated as "in vain" literally means "for falsehood").

Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.

The commandment not to erase or deface the name of God comes from Deut. 12:3. In that passage, the people are commanded that when they take over the promised land, they should destroy all things related to the idolatrous religions of that region, and should utterly destroy the names of the local deities. Immediately afterwards, we are commanded not to do the same to our God. From this, the rabbis inferred that we are commanded not to destroy any holy thing, and not to erase or deface a Name of God.

It is worth noting that the prohibition against erasing or defacing Names of God applies only to Names that are written in some kind of permanent form, and recent rabbinical decisions have held that writing on a computer is not a permanent form, thus it is not a violation to type God's Name into a computer and then backspace over it or cut and paste it, or copy and delete files with God's Name in them. However, once you print the document out, it becomes a permanent form. That is why observant Jews avoid writing a Name of God on a web sites like this one or in newsgroup messages: because there is a risk that someone else will print it out and deface it. Just in case you were wondering why I do it.

Pronouncing the Name of God

Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God's Name was pronounced routinely. Many common Hebrew names contain "Yah" or "Yahu," part of God's four-letter Name. The Name was pronounced as part of daily services in the Temple.

The Mishnah confirms that there was no prohibition against pronouncing The Name in ancient times. In fact, the Mishnah recommends using God's Name as a routine greeting to a fellow Jew. Berakhot 9:5. However, by the time of the Talmud, it was the custom to use substitute Names for God. Some rabbis asserted that a person who pronounces YHVH according to its letters (instead of using a substitute) has no place in the World to Come, and should be put to death. Instead of pronouncing the four-letter Name, we usually substitute the Name "Adonai," or simply say "Ha-Shem" (lit. The Name).

Although the prohibition on pronunciation applies only to the four-letter Name, Jews customarily do not pronounce any of God's many Names except in prayer or study. The usual practice is to substitute letters or syllables, so that Adonai becomes Adoshem or Ha-Shem, Elohaynu and Elohim become Elokaynu and Elokim, etc.

With the Temple destroyed and the prohibition on pronouncing The Name outside of the Temple, pronunciation of the Name fell into disuse. Scholars passed down knowledge of the correct pronunciation of YHVH for many generations, but eventually the correct pronunciation was lost, and we no longer know it with any certainty. We do not know what vowels were used, or even whether the Vav in the Name was a vowel or a consonant. Some religious scholars suggest that the Name was pronounced "Yahweh," but others do not find this pronunciation particularly persuasive.

Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for Y*V*) under the consonants of Y*V* to remind people not to pronounce Y*V* as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of Y*V* and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH, and the name stuck.

So you see it is not a bad thing to do. I will give you an example ( I hope you have read Deut 12? first). In the 10th day of November 1938 something horrendous happened all over Germany, something called Krista lnacht, or the night of broken glass. Read about it here if you don't know.

As you will read one of the things destroyed were the synogogues, along with the Torah and haftarah scrolls. These all contained the name of G-d in the original language and they were destroyed. We are not to destroy his name, or place it where others who don't know better could do so. This was something unavoidable, many were burned few were saved. It is good that his name is not printed in a bible, I think of how many people treat their bibles like just another book.

Just because it is not printed in the bible or on the internet doesn't mean we don't use it in prayer and in speaking of the holy one, blessed be he.

Adonai, does not mean Baal, not at all. I don't know who told you that, but they must not have very good scholarship behind that claim. Perhaps you mean El?

I have to say your group sounds very much like a sacred name group and all I know of them is not good.

You said:

Quote :

The name God doesn't like is Lord

Did you realize that Satan is also called a god in the bible? So you are using ( by your own definition) a pagan name as well.

Is your bible called "The Scriptures"?

actually, i think i can see where she is coming from.

most english speaking people, particularly british people, often only use one language - that being english, some often have a smattering of french or spanish (like me and catrin) for when we go on holiday.

now when we read our bibles in english we see the following words. L-RD, Lord and lord. If like most people you have a bible without footnotes, or simply never refer to them, complete confusion can arise as to which 'lord' is meant. It is one of the things which greatly annoys me about bible translations.

You have to ask really, why they translate it L-RD? If they are translating the word Adonai into english as L-RD then it is pointless. The tetragrammaton does not mean L-RD, it more more akin to the 'eternal one'.

I think it would be best if bible translators either translated as 'the Name' or something else, but not L-RD. It just creates more confusion and the word can in effect become meaningless in a sense as we just read them all as lord without really reading what they mean. We just read the word.

As for not writing G-d's name in either forms, then we are stuffed. All computer monitors write and rewrite G-d's name up to 75 times a second. His Name is constantly being erased and rewritten.

I think i recall reading somewhere from the Israel rabbinate's office something about this, as someone put forward the question about writing His name and using cut and paste in a word processor. In the final ruling, they asserted that to write His name on a wordprocessor was acceptable as the storage medium was temporary, but only become 'permenant' when printed out. (which was mentioned in the previous post)

Sounds like a complete fudge to me.

Now, personally, i write with the dashes so as not to offend others with the jewish and messianic community, but for me personally I use the phrase HaShem anyway so it's not an issue, but as for the word 'lord', unless you read with understanding then it is simply a word anyway.

Hello

yeah I totally get the placeholder, adonai, thing. And totally understand the whole Jewish cant write the name incase it gets destroyed thing too. (although personally I think its a step too far, I think God is big enough to cope with a few pieces of paper getting wrecked! Sorry!)

The problem is though, unlike the Jews, Christians have not been taught what His name is and 99% of us think that His name is Lord! That to me is very very sad. We dont have the heritage and family teaching to show us what His name is and as a result it has been totally lost in Christianity.
That is the problem!

We are taught correctly that there is power in his name, yet we dont know and dont ever use His name. Thankfully God is gracious and still meets with us and blesses us despite our stupidity, but my real passion lies in the fact when we actually use His name in prayer, we might actually see healing and spiritual outpouring in much greater quantities.

My friends on Yada Yahweh are certainly not sacred namers and would be totally offended to be called such. We are a random bunch of people from a range of denominations and backgrounds who just want better relationship with our maker. We are not legalistic about names, and do not say that other titles cannot be used such as father, faithful one, etc etc most of us just dont like the term Lord - it is meaningless and pretty offensive. Why not read what yadayahweh says about it and judge for yourself what its saying. Hopefully you'll see quite clearly that we are far from scared namers!

cyberlizard wrote:

actually, i think i can see where she is coming from.

most english speaking people, particularly british people, often only use one language - that being english, some often have a smattering of french or spanish (like me and catrin) for when we go on holiday.

now when we read our bibles in english we see the following words. L-RD, Lord and lord. If like most people you have a bible without footnotes, or simply never refer to them, complete confusion can arise as to which 'lord' is meant. It is one of the things which greatly annoys me about bible translations.

You have to ask really, why they translate it L-RD? If they are translating the word Adonai into english as L-RD then it is pointless. The tetragrammaton does not mean L-RD, it more more akin to the 'eternal one'.

I think it would be best if bible translators either translated as 'the Name' or something else, but not L-RD. It just creates more confusion and the word can in effect become meaningless in a sense as we just read them all as lord without really reading what they mean. We just read the word.

As for not writing G-d's name in either forms, then we are stuffed. All computer monitors write and rewrite G-d's name up to 75 times a second. His Name is constantly being erased and rewritten.

I think i recall reading somewhere from the Israel rabbinate's office something about this, as someone put forward the question about writing His name and using cut and paste in a word processor. In the final ruling, they asserted that to write His name on a wordprocessor was acceptable as the storage medium was temporary, but only become 'permenant' when printed out. (which was mentioned in the previous post)

Sounds like a complete fudge to me.

Now, personally, i write with the dashes so as not to offend others with the jewish and messianic community, but for me personally I use the phrase HaShem anyway so it's not an issue, but as for the word 'lord', unless you read with understanding then it is simply a word anyway.

As far as English translations go, I think we have to blame a non- Jew for that, King James.

You are correct, it is about destruction, and it has been deemed that removing pixels is not the destruction of HaShem. It only can happen if you print it out. I do it because I want to bring reverence to His name and because I don't want to be the reason that it 'may' become destroyed if someone were to printout something I've written.

I have Adonai and G-d in my bible. But it is always best to study a document in it's own language. If there is a confusion, it is in the translations, not the original.

If one does the dashes only to not offend a Jew or Messianic they are doing it for the wrong reason. We are not offended, it is about how you yourself view G-d and how much reverence you pay him. No one else should figure into the equation.

Juski wrote:

Hello

yeah I totally get the placeholder, adonai, thing. And totally understand the whole Jewish cant write the name incase it gets destroyed thing too. (although personally I think its a step too far, I think God is big enough to cope with a few pieces of paper getting wrecked! Sorry!)

The problem is though, unlike the Jews, Christians have not been taught what His name is and 99% of us think that His name is Lord! That to me is very very sad. We dont have the heritage and family teaching to show us what His name is and as a result it has been totally lost in Christianity.
That is the problem!

We are taught correctly that there is power in his name, yet we dont know and dont ever use His name. Thankfully God is gracious and still meets with us and blesses us despite our stupidity, but my real passion lies in the fact when we actually use His name in prayer, we might actually see healing and spiritual outpouring in much greater quantities.

My friends on Yada Yahweh are certainly not sacred namers and would be totally offended to be called such. We are a random bunch of people from a range of denominations and backgrounds who just want better relationship with our maker. We are not legalistic about names, and do not say that other titles cannot be used such as father, faithful one, etc etc most of us just dont like the term Lord - it is meaningless and pretty offensive. Why not read what yadayahweh says about it and judge for yourself what its saying. Hopefully you'll see quite clearly that we are far from scared namers!

Juski, it's not about G-d not being big enough, it is about him being so holy. It is about a commandment he gave to us, to not treat him, or his name the way we were told to of the other gods in Deut. ( I posted the scripture in my other post).

As far as what you have been taught, you have to look at what translation you received and who decided what you should know. Many of this has to do with separation from what was Jewish and what Christians thought belonged to them. STRONG's Concordance has been around since the 1890's and every word translated in the bible is given in it's original language so there really is no excuse.

I agree there is power in mentioning the name, there is also power in the name Yeshua. He also said any form of blasphemy would be forgiven except that of the Holy Spirit. So even if you didnt know, you will be forgiven.

I'm sorry you were offended about what I asked about the Scriptures. But that is what is sounded like to me.

You say you and your group don't like the term L-RD, it is meaningless and offensive. This word was used to denote holiness, and reverence, it was not used to diminish what He is.


Can I ask what "yada yahw*h means?

just a quick reply because Im snowed under with work: Please dont think Im offended by anything you say. The only thing that ever offends me is people that think they know everything, and wont discuss anything!! I'm really enjoying our chats, and I've learnt much

Yada' is the Hebrew word for: "to know in a relational sense, to recognize and to be acquainted with." Yahweh is God's name. His personal and proper name means "I Am," and "I Exist." Therefore, Yada Yahweh is an invitation "to know Yahweh" and "to understand our existence."

Anyway got babies to get to bed and books to read. Speak to you soon.

Ju

Im a Yahhuwdym too - mainly because I am Ju's husband...

hello all

Good to meet you.

nice to meet you Robski,

my names Steve (aka cyberlizard on many forums) - i reside in the chesterfield area of the UK

thanks guys

/wave

be sure to look us up if passing by chesterfield!

Shalom Rob!

Greeting Rob&Juski!

There is such a great deal to reply to here! --

First, it looks to me the same as when Psalms_119 alluded to your "Drawing," and i agree --> to the Fathers; Your fathers!

The idea here is in answer to Scripture;
- - those who are being "called out" are also among those who "Return"

I believe there ..to Be a Way for such a return..

-- In the Book; Acts, there were not but a few words the Gentiles were to follow. --
After that, there is a mixing silo!

If i am not mistaken, Noahides would be in the group of non-Jewish Believers?

-My guess is, the reason that difference was made; may have balanced off the word which says,
-your righteousness is to Exceed the scribes and Pharisees-

When the Orthodox were zealots for mitzvot -the authorities met to return shalom to the newly formed mishpat (?)

-----Scripture teaches; line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, there a little..

There will be a F(Y)RK in the road as long as we're on the earth-<
\/Here a tendril reaches out to the responding foliage which it connects to on that path-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Here/\we are connecting to one another in each raised tabernacle [tent]
-- -We connect here;

(Alef) Shmah Israel, _______ El______ _______ Echad...

Noahides believe in the 7 laws.

I guess this is off-topic - Perhaps another place to discuss this would be ...?

Laws determining sect, perhaps? -- Just because it seems the way people-groups collect..

613.org or somthing like that; 7thDayers; 7Laws; etc.,..

Perhaps we find our common grownd - Undergurding where we share faith and in such comaraderie; discover growth in the expance which mearly twinkled at us from a distance, previously, yes?

--------------------------------------
Looking for ways Allies can remain allies

Aurorah_Tapistry wrote:

I guess this is off-topic - Perhaps another place to discuss this would be ...?

Laws determining sect, perhaps? -- Just because it seems the way people-groups collect..

613.org or somthing like that; 7thDayers; 7Laws; etc.,..

Perhaps we find our common grownd - Undergurding where we share faith and in such comaraderie; discover growth in the expance which mearly twinkled at us from a distance, previously, yes?

--------------------------------------
Looking for ways Allies can remain allies

Honestly I think the common link with god is what binds us.

Jews are Jews and Righteous Gentiltes are allows Allies.